Don't Be Overcharged for Drinks in Shanghai
At Velvet Lounge last night I was charged twice for a drink. I paid by card, entered my pin, then was asked to enter it again because it didn't work.
My bank texts me whenever I make a transaction. It texted me twice to say I'd paid twice. It was an honest mistake by the bar staff. They weren't trying to con me, just were just busy. The people at Velvet are nice. They run a tight ship. They weren't trying to con me, they just made a simple mistake.
They called the manager. He assured me the mistake was mine. I explained, and showed him the messages from my bank. Eventually the amount I was over-charged was refunded to me. 10 points to ICBC, and their text alerts.
The moral of this story - Shanghai is a highly fallible place. Set this text alert up with your bank and then you will know exactly what you're being charged, wherever you go.
The service is available from ICBC for RMB10 a month, or for free if you have an Elite account. Prices at other banks depend on the account you set up, but it's worth it to make sure you're not ripped off, whether intentionally or not.
If you have other stories of terrible customer service or being over charged in Shanghai's nightspots of restaurants, get in touch, we want to know.
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I don't know Velvet specifically, but I do know this kind of problem extends beyond bars. There have been multiple occasions where restaurants — even international brands such as Pizza Hut or Hooters — have double charged on cards. Any time a department store has had to swipe cards more than once, it is smart to check. From personal experience, these kind of problems seem more apparent in Shanghai than in Beijing.
I never knew about this ICBC service. It's great value for 10 RMB! By the way, don't know about you but I always feel a bit creeped-out whenever making a card payment in China - just take a look at some of the POS terminals, sometimes they're so old and strangely interfaced to lots of computers... the hallmark of black hat operations. Paper money is still the way to go, unfortunately.
This happened to me in a well-known Hongmei Pedestrian street restaurant.
Them: "You entered your PIN, but the transaction didn't go through."
Me: "Was the PIN wrong?"
Them: "No but for some (mysterious, ethereal, happens a hundred times a day Chinese) reason it didn't make the payment.
Me: "Oh, okay, give me the failed transaction slip to prove that."
Them: "... no...."
Me: "Oh well, my phone just beeped to tell me it was ok, look. "
Them: "That's um, that's wrong... yeah, wrong."
Me: "I'd better call the bank and the police to be sure then."
Them: "Er, no, let me go check!"
(a minute elapses)
Them: "Sorry, I was wrong, the money is ok."
Me: "Gee, I had a funny feeling..."
It happened to me some times, although I'm sure I never got double charged... Dodgy, however.
I wonder how many people say they were overcharged when they weren't?
I think, Rockyroad, that a lot of people have experienced people simply attempting to overcharge, and then caught them in the lie.
Which is just as bad as actually being overcharged itself.
cheers to that Narfs,agreed. i have caught people trying to overcharge me, the same can be said for every bar in on the entire planet!! sometimes these things happen accidentally, i just don't see why it deserves a public forum unless trying to specifically hurt the business, and the manager by naming him. Does that give writers full disclosure to destroy businesses based on a heated exchange? Maybe someone takes their job a bit too seriously...
Nonsense, rockyroad, this is exactly the sort of information that City Weekend should be giving its readers. Well done Nick!
I mean it's fair to say that a lot of places do this wherever you are in the world, but I for one would like to know a) where it's being done and b) how I can prevent against it happening to me. Right?
I know the author of this report personally and he is as mild-mannered and inoffensive person as you could ever hope to meet.
The manager of said establishment fully deserves to be named and shamed. An apology would have cost him nothing, afterall, there is no question that the mistake was from his side.
Unfortunately, high and mighty attitudes from Shanghai bar management is all to common.
We would like to comment from our side on the above story. Like Nick says, this was an honest mistake from our side. We have been operating for over 4 years and although we are by no means perfect, we DO run an honest and legitimate business. We can assure any skeptics that we have no interest whatsoever in trying to scam our customers out of any dishonest cash. The bad reputations from such moves would overwhelmingly outweigh any benefits. Also, we are not those kind of people. We welcome any feedback from our customers, good or bad. If any of the CW readers have any issues they wish to bring to our attention, please feel free to email us directly on velvet@cosmogroup.cn It will no doubt be more effective in resolving issues as opposed to online slandering. We do follow up on any complaints and strive to run a friendly, customer focused business.
Velvet Lounge Management
Censorship? Anyone explain why the words below have been deleted from the original article? Did the bar threaten to pull its advertising? Is City Weekend running scared?
"They weren't trying to con me, just were just busy. But when I pointed this out they told me it was impossible, I was wrong, blah blah blah. I insisted and they called the manager. He assured me the mistake was mine. I explained, and showed him the messages from my bank and the manager - Tommy Patton - accused me of threatening him. Threatening him? No, Mr Patton. Just trying to get a drink for the price on the menu. Eventually the amount I was over-charged was thrust back at me. No apology for the drink mix up. No apology for the pathetic customer service. Nice one, Velvet, zero points for customer service. But 10 points to ICBC, and their text alerts."
Velvet Lounge says "If any of the CW readers have any issues they wish to bring to our attention, please feel free to email us directly on velvet@cosmogroup.cn It will no doubt be more effective in resolving issues as opposed to online slandering."
Does that mean you are accusing Nick of lying? Slander (though you should have used 'libel', it was published) implies deliberate falsehood- are you accusing him of fabricating his original report? That's pretty serious allegations against a staffer, not a random, anonymous reader.
And frankly, it seems to me if your management had handled it better, there'd have been no reportage at all- it would have been good customer service. I have no reason to disbelieve him, and your reaction here gives me reason to suspect your motives. Perhaps it was an honest mistake- probably was- but I do believe your arrogant customer service mentality (reflected in your attitude posting here, especially the total lack of an apology for the mistake, coupled with your use of the word 'slander') led to this particular pooch being screwed.
You just failed PR crisis management 101, BTW- kneejerk defensive rhetoric trying to accuse your detractors of 'slander' never, ever makes you look honest. It's not an honest reaction. Next time, try using the words 'We're sorry, there was a mistake and a mis-communication, thanks for letting us know where we can improve.'
The writer already tried to resolve the situation, but was met with rude and unapologetic behaviour, hence the fully deserved report which has shamefully been censored.
The issue isn't that Velvet Longue deliberately tried to scam cash from a customer - no-one is suggesting that. It's about treating the customer with respect and that appears to have been sorely lacking.
I would say BOYCOTT, but then we might risk some of their d.bag customers going to other places and I wouldn't want to run into them there either.
I am a loyal customer at velvet lounge. One thing that drew me to this place was the well mannered management , courteous service and the great ambience. The manager Tommy, I would say , is one of the best bar managers in this industry that I have seen. Even when I have had trouble he has bent over back wards to find a solution. Also I have seen him take care of customers in a great manner ,time after time and he has always been courteous, cheerful and apologetic when it is needed. Velvet lounge you get an A plus for having such courteous people and staff. I my self have run in to this problem myself , just to find out that it is a bank error. I am sure that the gentleman that has written the article clearly misunderstood the bar manager. I am sure that everything was done in a respectful way possible. However, I think this is a personal attack towards Tommy and Velvet lounge. I believe this article should reflect on the subject the guy started writing (moral of the story- to alert people of the banking facility…!!!!) and not a personal attack against the business or an individual. WELL DONE CITY WEEKEND for allowing your staff to abuse their writing skills to intimidate.
You weren't there namali so how do you know? But interesting that you, as a loyal customer who thinks the staff are wonderful, also talk about having trouble there. And having run into the same double charging problem. Maybe as a regular customer they knew better than to argue with you.
Man what BS. Velvet Lounge Keep doing what you are doing. you are the best
I definitely agree with @namali ! The article clearly talks about how POS systems are sometimes problematic, and that banks offer a service that text message you if you make a purchase or withdrawal with your card.
I frequently visit Velvet Lounge and have NEVER had any problems with management or their staff. I have always been treated with respect and courtesy such as being offered a free bottle of champagne for the trouble of changing tables! I find it very unprofessional as well for the writer to name the establishment where he encountered trouble, when clearly the article wasn't about Velvet at all! I'd hate for people to get a bad impression of such a great place and think that something fishy is going on. I for one will continue to go there for their great ambiance, drinks and music!@steph123, I don't think you were there either so why are you insisting on the issue?
Moral of the story is: Set up alerts with your bank to tell you when you have paid for something or when you have withdrawn money! That's it! POS failures can happen at a bar, restaurant, store anywhere!Please read carefully what I have written. It has nothing to do with if I am a regular or not at velvet, this issue of so called double charging that I have encountered once had nothing to do with velvet but I mentioned it was a bank error. As for so called trouble that one would say.. which I have encountered at velvet is just been unable to find seating as they are always full and also sometimes the normal things that happens at all bars. If anyone reads the article properly and thoroughly .. you can see that the writer of this article at CW is blowing a small issue out of proportion and his main target is not the double charging nor the banking facility as he says in his message that he wants to give the public. Anyone can see that this is a direct attack on an individual and the business. Were you there sir?? Probably not…. But I can assure you that the management at velvet is way above than what this guy is trying to portrait to the public.. GOOD LUCK TO HIM!
As steph123 pointed out, this article has gone through soe ENORMOUS changes since it was originally published.
@esteban0: the issue was not that it was a POS failure -those as you pointed out are uncommon, but do happen, the real issue is that the bar manager blamed the customer even in the face of evidence.
Honest mistakes do happen, and in the heat of the moment things can be said that are difficult to un-say, so anyone and everyone who faces this kind of situation should take a step back, look at the evidence and work through things patiently and logically.
@Velvet Lounge: keep your private Wu Mao Dangs to yourselves, or risk being accused of holding your customers in more contempt.
Actually, I was there esteban. Which is why I was so interested in what the writer had to say and then the rewording of the article. I'm not aware I'm "insisting" on anything. I should add that I've never had any problems with the Velvet Lounge.
Namali, Gary- so, you two love Velvet soooo much, you had to register just to defend its honor?
Clear customer service failure.
Now, to the real juicy bits.
"However, I think this is a personal attack towards Tommy and Velvet lounge. I believe this article should reflect on the subject the guy started writing (moral of the story- to alert people of the banking facility…!!!!) and not a personal attack against the business or an individual. WELL DONE CITY WEEKEND for allowing your staff to abuse their writing skills to intimidate."
Stakes are high for Nick, you know- if he were really abusing his position he'd be shitcanned in a second. Of course, I don't think he was using his skills for the forces of evil because I trust his account of the affair and not you, what with your new registration and all, and also because Velvet has a terrible rep for customer service. Furthermore, you have to ask the question- if he were libeling Velvet (nb: libel, not slander. You Velvetites have bad customer service and worse vocabulary), and thus endangering his job, what does he gain? A free drink? Spite? You think he'd risk his job, reputation and future employment prospects over that? If so, you're a moron.
At no point has anyone, on either side, said that Velvet apologized. They shouldn't be in the SERVICE INDUSTRY if they haven't learned to apologize for standard-issue F&B whoopsies.
To Nick....you re-wrote your own article to make velvet seem courteous and professional during your visit? now you're gonna make all those other similiar "management" jerks think they're better than everyone else! cuz hey! if they abuse their power and get a bad review, just threaten cityweekend and its editors and have it pulled.
Bad food experienced can be saved by great customer service, but bad service can never be saved by good food...Get a Backbone cityweekend!
Nick, thanks for your story. Sure you edited it so that it could stick to one point, teaching us all that we need to question the whole double swipe/double PIN entry problem that we all get faced with once in a while when out. I gotta find this same SMS service with CCB!
Your original story had a second point that was important too: to localize expectations for customer service and attention. Naming names and providing an example helped to make that point. Having it come from someone whose job it is to operate seamlessly in the nightlife industry justifies the concept. Seeing that it could happen even at a CW "Best of" establishment shows that no brand is immune from questionable service. We'll make our individual decisions from here...keep up the good work.
Phew this story had legs. Thanks for everyone who weighed in with passionate comments on all sides.
For the sake of fairness, I should report that Velvet's owner had a couple of long conversations with me about it and expressed real regret about any customer service failings. He also felt it was unfair of me to name his manager. Velvet aren't an advertiser and never have been. (They certainly won't be now.) The owner asked nicely and since the point of my story was the text alert thing, not the way it was handled, I removed the mention of the guys name who I talked to at the bar.
Maybe I shouldn't have, but I'm a friendly guy. I don't lack backbone, but maybe I lack the sort of ruthlessness that often characterizes journalists. The aim of this site and our magazine is to recommend places and events that you might find fun. Velvet Lounge is a big favorite with our readers, and I'll continue to plug it and its events because I work for our readers, not our advertisers, and our readers like the place.
The point remains - these mistakes happen frequently, all over the world. They are genuine errors, but protect yourself from fallibility by setting up the bank text alert.
Wow, great post. I'm definitely going to set that up! Side note, I've always found Velvet Lounge management insufferable